EP8: A new generation takes over and expands beyond a single plant with Colin Wetlaufer

FULL TRANSCRIPT: 

Eric: Hi everyone, Eric Smith here with Alliant Systems. I hope you're ready to go today because we're going to just jump right in. Today we're going to learn about a family-owned textile rental company that's been around for nearly 120 years. But starting about 7 or 8 years ago, they really started to expand and grow. And to me, this is something that's really exciting for me to see a company in our industry transforming like this.

But what I really want to know is what are some of the strategies and processes being used to drive this growth, and how does a family-owned company that's going through these types of changes still maintain the same service level, attention to detail, and keep that locally owned and operated feel and pride. So this is something that I see in the in the industry, and it can be a real challenge to thread that needle.

So to help us out today, I'm joined by Colin Wettlaufer, president of City Clean and Simple Based and Oelwein in Iowa. Welcome, Colin. Thanks for joining me today. How are you doing?

This is the podcast for the textile rental operator community to learn new things, share ideas, and drive conversations. Welcome to Laundry Talks with your host, Eric Smith. This episode is brought to you by Alliant Systems.

Colin:  Thanks for having me. Yeah.

Eric: What's new? What's new with you?

Colin: Oh, man. It's. Summer's in full swing. my children don't sleep. And, you know, trying to do a bunch of laundry in between, so that's about it.

Eric: And they're home all day now. Is that right?

Colin: They're home all day and all night.

Eric: Well, cool. Yeah, we got a busy summer is a busy time. let me start out by asking at one. Am I pronouncing Oelwein correctly?

Colin: You are? I think, somebody told me it's like old German for old wine. Oh, And you just dropped the D. So, so I think you got it right.

Eric: Okay. It's close enough. Yeah.

Colin: So as a kindergartner, having to learn this bottle of wine and, well, offer, they didn't set me up for success, Eric, so. Yeah.

Eric:  That's okay. So, yeah, saying that name, it goes way back in the old wine. Your fourth generation of Wettlaufer to oversee the company. And tell me a little bit about how the company at its start.

Colin: Yeah. So my great-grandfather founded the company in 1906. he came to a wine, that year. And, you know, I believe was 18 at the time. And, he had I don't know if he got it once he came or bought it on the way, but he had a horse and wagon, at the time. Oelwein was the hub for the Chicago Northwestern Railroad. So all the lines out of Chicago went to Oelwein, and there was a lot of a lot of people working, and lot of people have an intense, larger things. The population of Oelwein, I think, was higher in 1906 than it is today.

Eric: Wow.

Colin: By a lot. And, so he found somebody with a washing machine. He started selling the laundry and had somebody else doing the laundry. Bought him out six months later, and the rest is history.

Eric: I saw, I saw on your company timeline that actually, one of the key moments in the history of the company was when the horse retired. And you went to your first delivery vehicle. 

Colin: Yeah, for sure. You know, this has got to be one of the only industries where you see pictures of the horses. Model T's, vans, trucks all the way up to semis. So,  it's a fun part of the story. So we still have a restored model T that that we do, in parades and things. So wow.

Eric: Is that your grandfather in this picture that's behind you?

Colin: That's my great-grandfather. Yes. That's the founder. Yeah. So he had, he had seven kids, and his, oldest was the next, Gerald. and then my grandfather was the youngest, so there was greater than 20 years between them. So he was actually already graduated from college when my grandfather was born. So I'm fourth generation, but technically there could be five in there. So, so it's been a little bit. And, my grandfather left the business after the Navy started his own laundry in Arizona and then, later was convinced to come rejoin when, none of his nieces and nephews stayed in the business, who were his age, you know, and, they had all left. So, they convinced me to come back to Iowa.

Eric: Well, I've got a lot of questions that I want to get to and people want to know. The last question, just kind of about the history of the company is tell me, what was it like, from your perspective, kind of growing up in a laundry family? And is this something you always wanted to do, or you did you explore other options or kind of what's how is your how's your journey into, the family business?

Colin: Yeah, well, you got a family business and you've got a small town, and now a lot of people in it. And so, you know, when I was little, my grandfather was in the business, obviously very active. He was the president when I was born, and my father was in the business, you know, laundries everywhere. It was in all it was talked about, all the dinners, you know, so Sunday dinners and, it was dessert served and reviewing, things for the week and things to do and, the size of the company at the time, you know you've got owners doing everything in the business.

And so, you know, their hands are on everything, you're touching everything. And you see it all. So. Yeah. we had a fire in 1992, which was a total loss fire of the rental plant. We had a separate dry cleaning operation then, but, we, we had set up, you know, temporary staging of clean products around delivery in a warehouse. And we're renting, a laundry third shift that was about an hour away and bussed all the employees who ran that laundry for disaster recovery. And so I was eight years old when that happened. And, it was June. You know, that's where my dad was. He was working. He was doing stuff. And. Yeah, I started coming in stored hangers, and I'm sure my mother wanted me out of the air and I, we stopped doing stuff and so started being around it then, you know, then you start doing yard work, mowing lawns, doing those things.

When I was 12, the person that did our first short, which back then was, you know, a person assigned to a job, she had her first child and was going to do maternity leave in the summer. And so, somebody's idea was, well, I'll teach Colin how to run first sort, sort. And, you know, it was a very manual process, and I think I did about 50% as fast as her. Yeah. But, by the end of the summer was fairly, fairly good. And then, you know, you work in the plant and then, back when I turned 16, you could still drive her out, but you didn't need any special safety certifications.

So I started jumping routes then, and, you know, try to try to touch all the different parts. So I think, you know, having that be so much of, kind of family identity and, you know, multi-generations of, of touching stuff and doing stuff. I think, there really was never a thought of, not being in the business.

And I think, one of the neat things about Citi from my perspective is everyone put a different stamp on it generationally. So the business changed, based on the direction and the strategy they wanted to have, for that leader. And, I felt like there was an opportunity there to do it. The big negative was that it was in, you know, very rural Iowa. So that was probably my only hesitancy. But, I married my high school, girlfriend. So coming back home made them a little simpler.

Eric: Nice. So when you took over and one of the changes we're going to talk about is the expansion. But, can you tell us, when you took over, what were some of the first challenges that you faced and, you were looking to address?

Colin: Well, I think you've got business challenges and you've just got, you know, family entering the business and stuff. I think, you know, there's always that fear in a family business of too much nepotism. I mean, frankly, by definition, you know, the family business has created some level of nepotism. But you're having a path where you can earn things, being a small enough business knowing everybody, generally, that was involved in the business, that helps when you're integrating things. But I think there's a testing period for everybody that's coming in.

And, when you enter a business, I mean, I see a lot of people do it in different ways. You know, there's businesses that feel like, hey, you should go away, prove yourself in another industry, learn skills, you know, learn what it's like to work somewhere else. You know, that that whole thing. for me, I think diving in, you know, the best advice I got for my grandfather after I graduated college is he said, you've got one year that everyone will remember, and you should unlock the door and you should lock the door. You've got nothing else to do. So you might as well hang out.

And, that was that turned out to be good advice, because I think when you're trying to figure out your way, even if there are things that aren't directly involved in your operational day-to-day, you get involved in things because you're present. And there's something about this industry that, you know, the blue-collar ness, the sweat of dirty laundry that that's in everything we do.

And I think, you kind of have to earn that respect of those people doing the work. So, you know, coming into the business, and just trying to figure out what that path looked like was a big deal for me. One of the best things that happened to me early on was, that I'm a very competitive-minded person who, you know, likes, likes to find goals.

And my father had set up like, hey, here's here's the roles you should really learn if someday you want to run this business. And here's what success would look like in that role. So there was a assigns timelines necessarily to that. But it was, you know, achievement markers. You know, if you can go sell and you could maintain this rental sales average, then you'd be eligible to do something else, you know, etc..

And, that that gave me a path, that I thought made sense. And like all family businesses, that path changed jumps different roles based on business needs. But I think that helped. And, the biggest challenge from a business standpoint at the time was I think the business was comfortable and, there's nothing wrong with businesses.
I think like, lifestyle companies are a dirty word. Right? So I don't know if I'd say lifestyle company as much, but, you know, there there wasn't, a high growth goal in the business. I think there was a very comfortable, level goal. There was no intent for geographic expansion. And, we had a lot of capacity in the existing facility.

And so I think there was just a level of comfort. And, you know, nobody was there on Friday afternoons. I mean, there were just a lot of things that were very different. And so getting, you know, getting to a point where you could be an impact on strategy as a next generational person coming in and then, you know, getting people to buy into that strategy. I think that that transition takes a long time and is a real challenge. Yeah, that's for me.

Eric: That's great. And it's clear that you obviously felt you kind of felt a little bit of that pressure stepping into your role that, you know, you, you kind of felt like maybe that people were watching you, you had an opportunity to show kind of, you know, how you could kind of put your stamp on the business. But you also, kind of took the time to work in all those different roles. And I think I see that as an important step. A lot of successful people take, before, you know, a lot of people are going to want to know kind of how you got to point A to point B before we talk about a couple of those things you've done, do you mind just sharing kind of contrast what the company looked like, you know, size geographically, facilities ten years ago versus what it is today. And then we're maybe talking a little bit about that.

Colin:  Yeah. Well so I go I mean, so when I started full time in 2007, in 2007, you know, we serviced, about a 70 miles radius of Oelwein, which, I bet the total population in that 70 miles is, you'll probably 600,000 people. and, had a dominant market share is a percent based on how we do market sizing work. And, obviously, there were steps in the way, but, you know, today, we have three processing plants for depots, and we service a geographic area that encompasses all of Iowa, all of Minnesota, a little bit just, Fargo, Sioux Falls, Omaha on the west edge, and then, you know, Quad Cities over to Eau Claire on the east and up to, up to Canada, basically.
So significant changes in geography and, facility size. And so the business overall is just under six times the, the top line by.

Eric: Wow. Those are, those are... I would characterize those big changes.

Colin: So, yeah, a lot of changes.

Eric:And what was you know, if they're you know, they always talk about, you know, how you, how you eat an elephant, which is one bite at a time. So what was like what was one of the very first steps you took? kind of to, to move towards that direction? 


Colin: You know, the first thing was when we had a first depot, and for us, you know, we were in the state of Iowa and, we're considered an Iowa company. We didn't go to Des Moines, which was, just under three hours from. All right, which is the largest metro. And, you know, the greater MSA of Des Moines is almost half the population in the state.

Obviously, a lot of, a lot of business potential. at that time, we were 100% industrial in what we service. So, looking at that market size, what was really there, and there was no, you know, real local independent that was committed to being there. I think the biggest part of geographic expansion that, we learned, but later ended up really defining our strategy is, you know, we like to compete against the publicly traded national company.

And when we can go to a market and, we're the local independent or, you know, or the, the largest local independent either way, we think that's a really different story that we can tell. And, I think the market was really hungry for somebody that, that was there, you know, there was one other, the laundry that was there that was kind of had to go there because their customers at both them, but they didn't want to be.

And, and we were able to take a senior leader, and, and move him to that Des Moines market and start that and you know, pretty aggressive growth plan and, and how we wanted to, you know, chunk out starting that deposit. That was a big thing, proving the concept that we could do it. And it also led us to a market that, you know, I think our market potential almost quadrupled with just that first move. So that was really the first big step.

Eric: Cool. One of the other things that I did some, you know, that I read on, on the web, on the website is that, something that I think that you're, you're really proud of and that is, a low, low employee turnover, at City and on your site, I see multiple instances of employees that use that term. Hey, it's it feels like a family atmosphere. And then I even saw our customers, that our interview that say really feels like family. So I wonder how you how do you keep that kind of feel alive in, in a large growth phase.

Colin: Yeah,  it's one of the larger challenges, I think, you know, the people that you know, for a long time, like, you know, Mark Barlow was the person that went to Des Moines, and I think he's in his 42nd year with City. He has family. Right. So I think that in, in a family business environment, you know, people that share a last name, but then you have people who share a common sense of values and work ethic that are the other every day.

And, you know, at this point, from day-to-day operations, I'm the only technical family member in the business. But I feel like we have a ton of family and there's a lot of people that have done it. And we still have people that, that have interacted with, you know, three generations of family that are working in the business. And, we recently had people lost that were getting back to that fourth generation. So I think, I think you want to try to instill that, know how you talk about people, how you care about people. I kind of joke, Eric, I don't want to work with people who don't, you don't want to know and care about me personally.

And. Yeah, I think that's important. And I think that starts that conversation because we're, we're whole people, not just the time that we spend at work. So that's a big part of things. But frankly, it's the largest challenge with growth. I think, geographically expanding, you know, keeping that that sentiment and then the acquisition aspect that makes it even harder.

Eric: Well, I imagine that comes into play. And I imagine that one of the biggest challenges you probably personally deal with is just the demands on your time where, you know, yeah, when you're in a 70-mile area and managing a smaller organization and you have that, you know, getting to know the people. Yeah, probably have to make a much more conscious effort to, you know, keep those, you know, communications open.

Colin: Oh, and it's one of my personal frustrations of, you know, we went from probably within six months after starting, I knew not only every employee personally, but probably their significant other, probably most of their kids, some of their dogs' names, you know, I mean, there's a there's an intimacy, you know, everybody, and, it's really challenging now.

It's difficult to see everybody. It's, it's sometimes takes time to meet new employees. And you have to be really intentional about it. And the geography is harder than the employee count, I think, because, you know, proximity makes things easy. If you see somebody regularly, you kind of get to know them through osmosis. And when you have to put intention around it and process, that becomes a whole different thing. So, and relying on other people to have some of that information is, is a big challenge.

Eric: Absolutely. One of the other things I've heard you say in the past is that you're very good as a company at asking yourself what your own weak points are, and that kind of brought me to I know you have a program, a quality management program, you call it, I think City Quality Management. And I am assuming that you're kind of leaning on a lot of those processes to help you through this growth. Is that that fair?

Colin: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, systematizing things where it becomes, scalable and repeatable process. I think, it's really essential. And there's a lot of tools, that have helped us that are outside. It's not like it's a magic formula, but, you know, going from so it's so in my lifetime, you know, Carlos Guerrero was, was our plant manager for over 40 years.

And, he probably personally touched for 30 years, garments every week on every route, you know, and when you lose something like that, I mean, that's not a scalable process to ask somebody, to do it. And so, you know, how do you have that how do you define it? And, using some of the things, you know, like the hygienically clean process through to say that standardizes some things from a quality control standpoint that you can lean on and then build into that your own process for Jackson, you know, hopefully not stumble too much along the way.

Eric: Yeah. I mean, that perfect example of that. my, you know, you talked a little bit earlier about one of your first jobs was, doing the first sort on garments, and then you had an employee that maybe used to touch a mystery garment each week. And now, you know, it's really technology that you're stepping in with one of the things that, again, you guys promote on your site is the adoption of RFID. And I'll try frequency RFID technology. You might talk a little bit about that. Move towards that form of technology, how it's helping you, you know, grow.

Colin: Yeah.  In 2009, we went to, you know, the, the high frequency but not ultra high in maths. And then in 2011, we went to ultra high, that garments and you know from a barcode technology to that and getting more data with less labor frankly it, you know, that was a big input.  And it's interesting how the believability, from a customer base of, of and assurances of, you know, we went from counting in my career to not counting, you know, and then really our technology allows us to count, without having to have the labor to count.

And it's not magical,  but it's good data that's easily there. And there's a believability to it. I mean, I think people understand and expect mistakes, and our customers are operators, their own businesses. So they relate to that. I think when you talk about human counts or even, you know, light frames and things like that, there's a natural kind of tilting of the head.

But when you talk about scanning a chip that's in a towel or a garment, it just there's a, there's an assurance there. And, and I believe ability and, as we continue to expand on, on how we utilize that RF technology, I think it's it's really been needed, I mean, on the garments to, to be able to prove to people that they're getting back where they sent in and have that assurance. That's a really big deal. You were starting to implement it in the healthcare division of our business. And, I think there are even more applications there. When you talk about on-site inventory levels, you know, ensuring that, those audits are being done and linen utilization within, you know, clinics and acute care settings. There's really a ton of opportunity there.

So it's giving, real data in the hands of people. And, you know, a really tough part of our business. And, and, frankly, hiring for the soiled department is a hard thing to do. So if you can reduce those needs and the amount of touches you have to have through technology, it's, it's pretty incredible of how that changes the feel within the plant.

Eric: Yeah. It's a lot nicer if I'm working on the soil, if I just push a soil linen back through a portal, I can tell you that.

Colin: Yeah for sure. Yeah. Versus versus a hand and touch everything. Yeah. It's, very different. Demand for sure.

Eric: Wow. That's, That's great. Anything else you talked about how, you know, you're... Well, actually, I, I want to make a point on, the inventory control side. I'm sure as you've grown, you're six times the size of the business, which means in some cases, you've got six times the product, acquisition cost. And, you know, things that you might have once done manually are going to be very, very difficult for you to do without technology today.

Colin: Oh, yeah. I think, you know, the realities of, some of those physical inventories, how you handle things. You know what people I think tend to be really hesitant when you don't have any depot and you're in a one-plant operator and you talk about the problems that can happen in a depot. I mean, every private laundry has sold against, you know, a big national service in a part of their geography, out of a depot, forgets things, and it takes weeks to get back.

And all these things, some of that's true, and some of it's kind of, you know, stories that we tell, but, haven't been able to scan things, you know, on-site, know what's coming before it's even put into the back of a semi-trailer, know what's going back? You know, we're we're trying to get more on-site now.

Customer scanning and some of the portal technologies where you said push the whole carts through, whether it's clean or soil. it just is pretty darn cumbersome to not do that. I think the future of our industry will be, you know, guarantee full scan at the customer level of everything that we're picking up. You know, we know what that is when we're there and before we leave, and then we're bringing back. And they know that those returns are equal. We're headed that way.

Eric: Absolutely. And back to you that you were talking a little bit about the depot. So, I can you mentioned earlier that was really your first step. So when you decided to expand and open that depot, what did you do? Just go down there and find a facility and hire a salesperson? Or how has that process begun? 

Colin: Sure. So the very first, the very first one, the process we did, you know, we had, a leader identified and his background was largely through sales management. And so he himself was sales and, at the time, you know, there was a lot of, conservativeness still within the business that, maybe, maybe has changed a little bit. But, I didn't have the authority to just, you know, run with the budget at a loss for a long time. So it was pretty conservative. And so we size the market, you know, we did, brought all of our rental sales reps from anywhere there. And really, to make those initial prospecting cold calls fill the database and, then, add a wrap.

And we started off with selling and doing a truck swap and not having a physical location until we, you know, we built up, so I think it was three days of volume and then went with the physical location and still did a truck swap for a little while until we had, I think went to a five day route and then then moved to an actual shuttle transfer, larger depot.

And we were in that depot until we were at two and a half routes. And then we moved up to a bigger depot because by then we were, you know, needing, a full semi trailer for the transfer. And I think we hung there till about five routes, and then we ended up building a facility. You know, the nature of it's almost like a trucking terminal, but with some specialized stuff with, with trolleys and things.

So, you know, to only need 10,000ft², but, 12 loading docks, is is a unique ask in the market. So, we just went in and, put our flag on the ground there. So that's how we did the first one, and we've modified that process a lot as we've expanded, we try to go somewhere and grow organically in the territory. I think, you know, we understand the speed and the necessary levels better. Now, at least with our system to attain profitability, for different levels of, assurance. And I think all those growth steps are top right to get to a point where you can really justify good service management, justify good relief drivers. What are those doing and when they're far from the hub?

I mean, in our case, all of our depots are, well, three of our four depots are more than three hours away from the plant that services. One is only an hour, and that's a little simpler. But, you know, figuring out what those numbers mean for you and your organization and, how fast you need to hit. It's kind of working backward of, you know, how much you can sell, how fast you can sell it, and go from there.

Eric: And that opens up the door once you start kind of planting these people and then employees 3 or 4 hours away. Now, how did you handle that from an HR perspective? Were you taking existing, you know, successful team members and kind of planting them in new areas? And, but how do you manage those people now in a different way?

Colin: Yeah, yeah, it's, it's really changed our structure. And so, we only did that once. So the very first step we did, we took an existing, you know, high culture individual that we felt like, understood who City was and, and relocated them. I would love to do that every time. We haven't had other people, in that situation. So, you know, we've, we typically start with sales in the market. And, so the sales are a little simpler because they're, they're less tied to, you know, the rest of your leadership structure. But, once you're selling in a market and then, building that service infrastructure. So, over time, I think we've, we've really defined what type of person, you know, works best with us.

In our case, we like people who don't know the industry as well. It seems to align better with what we're doing. We've we've made every mistake you can possibly make. I think in its process, both from a hiring and a management selection. But, you know, getting those people that can support to grow within, the only real change is, I think we, we now overhire and service, versus what the math would say we need, because of the, the lack of support, because you truly are on an island.

And, you know, you need to build bridges as best you can, but, we have to have more oversight than we have. So, we've grown too fast in markets, and that's almost a worse problem than not growing fast enough.

Eric: Right. So back to to looking at growth. You know, as operators are kind of looking at what their opportunities are for growth. A lot of times that happens in two different, you know, types of formats. some companies, you know, one option is to just slowly expand geographically, you know, in any direction where they feel the market, warrants it.

And they might, you know, start by running an overnight route and they might turn that into a depot. The second option is either through acquisition or building from the ground up. They may they may see the need that it's an opportunity to grow, you know, through a new facility. So why don't we talk first about, you know, how you first started with moving to a depot?

Colin: Sure. I think the real first question is, you know, what do you want to do? And, you know, it's easy to just say laundry and that's, you know, water talks to the podcast, right? But are you a health care provider or you're a uniform provider? You Med only? You industrial mix, you have fab, fab linen? And then understanding, you know, of your existing customers, you know, we reference a lot internally. We talk about our shared wallet of the products and services we offer. How much of that are we getting with our existing customers and kind of doing a sizing of, of where you're at and, and say, okay, what's what's your potential?

And, you know, for us, in the industrial side of things, the easiest information to get is the employee size of, potential customers. And so we quantify, you know, gross employee count to a share of wallet and how it relates to the services and products we provide. And then we can look at a market and say, you know, this is what we think the marketing potential or the, the weekly, you know, revenue is and industrial laundry.

And you can look at competitors in the market and Google Maps and all those things. But I feel like that's all secondary data. I think you have to start with who you are and what the potential is within your existing market. So, and then identify those markets that have the, you know, the highest potential and the, the highest ROI. I think going from, yeah. As you grow as a company, I think, you know, as the leader, the capital allocation is the toughest thing. I feel like you're you're presented with all these opportunities and potentials for growth. But, you know, where do you go? How do you spend? So, you know, figuring out what the highest opportunity is  really the the biggest thing.

You know, we looked at, after we done the Des Moines, you know, I was really clamoring to get to the next largest metro that was close, which for us was the Minneapolis region. And, that was a little scarier for people with a different state, different areas, you know, about half an hour further. And then, you know, we  were helped out with, with the tides a little bit when, Jeanne Cassel, which was based in that market, had a really, really large presence. And we made a full commitment to go. And then it was even better tides when, a few months later, Ameriprise sold in that market. And so, we got really aggressive with it, how to go within that market and sell. And that was the that was the second big push for us. So the geographic expansion, and to get up there.

So I probably meandered around your question, Eric, but I think, I think understanding that and how you want to go, attack those customers and, generate opportunities in the market is the, the real big decision, with expansion and, you know, I don't know if it's possible maybe somebody dunno where they just Greenfield at a plant with no business. But to me that starting with the flag of the depot is the first big thing and then deciding whether are you acquisitive or not. You know, do you want to, are you open to the possibility of, acquiring additional customers or businesses? And, for us in 2017, you know, after I had, become the full owner of City, you know, reentered a different planning process.

By then, I felt confident about my team in place, you know, kind of being aligned strategically and, we really looked to our business and wanted to have, a health care division that processes, health care, laundry, and, really started that process seriously. And the first year was kind of assessing what we thought that looked like. And we really felt like we didn't want to be a mixed plant. You certainly can do it and be successful in having health care mixed with other types of business. But we really wanted to have, standalone healthcare facilities. And so we identified, you know, potential targets and started working on it. And, it took it took a while. But on September of 22, we closed on the two plant acquisitions. And that was a healthcare business and, started with the plant side of things. So it was a different division, a different market. And then also, you know, two plants at once. So that was a big, this big bite to take off there.

Eric: Yeah. And you know, it's interesting because I think what I'm hearing is that as a company today, City is much more data-driven and you talked about the, the, the, the concern over the capital expenditures, you know when money is nearly free to borrow, those decisions is completely different than, as, you know, where we are today that, you know, knowing again, having that data justify it makes it a little bit easier for you to probably make some those strategic decisions.

Colin: Absolutely. And, you know, you a little bit ago you talked about scaling and challenges with scale. And I think that's one of them is when you're when you're the president, CEO of an organization. And, the bets, aren't as big, frankly, you know, you can, you can probably absorb some things or justify some things, but when, numbers start to change and, bets get bigger.

And like you said, when money isn't free, those things have, have large impacts on and, the ROI on different projects and getting disciplined about how you track them and not just passionate about it. I mean, I think every single plant operator probably bought something at the clean show before that. They just saw and, wasn't part of their plan. And I think transitioning from you know, hey, this was on sale to, being really strategic about what do we need? What are the plans for the future? What does that look like? That's a big transformation within a business. At least it was with us.

Eric: So big challenges just went out for Clean 2025 to get to buy something

Colin: Yeah. There you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eric: speaking of the data, yeah, that kind of opens up another question I have as far as some of the things that are driving your growth, some of the decisions you've made. One of those is has been on the marketing side.

And you know, one of the things that I gathered from your marketing team in the past is that they really started kind of digging into that customer data, you know, who are the customers that we want to serve? You know, you talk about healthcare and you talk about, you know, the food service industry. And that was an area where you felt there was a lot of opportunity, and you really started using technology to identify those customers rather than just kind of just naturally growing and cold calling. You started to really target customers much more systematically. Yeah. How's that process been for you? 

Colin: Probably like a lot of companies. You know, when I, when I sold full time, it was, you know, here's a map of your geography and you're driving up and down the streets and, you know, entering stuff in and, started with a notebook and then migrated to CRM and going to those things versus, really being intentional about prospecting.

And I think for rental or sales reps in this industry, one of the hardest things is just identifying what a good opportunity is. And everybody probably attended, you know, a session at one time or another with a publicly traded CEO who said, oh, "everyone's a potential customer in this business". And that's kind of true, but it's not true for City.

And with the people who are potential customers of City. I think we have very defined you know, we know what those NAICS codes are. We know what the opportunity is within them. We sell to them differently. They have different needs. And, from a marketing lens, I guess I kind of started from it on the sales and of, you know, people don't care about, you know, what you do, they care about what you do for them and how it impacts them. And so starting, starting from that customer viewpoint and working backward was really a big deal. And I don't know that there was anything, you know, new about that, but it was new to us of really saying, okay, if you're a food processor, what are your what are your needs? And, what are the differentiators that are really there?

And that's a lot different than if you, you know, service, diesel trucks; and identifying whatever those segments are and going from there. And then, you know, then you have a list you can not only work on in the sales process, but in your own business of how you can improve those, differentiate. And so for us, when we think about marketing, you know, everybody thinks about customer acquisition and that's marketing. I think that's an aspect of marketing. I think of customer acquisition is pretty far down the sales funnel. You know, branding is top of sales funnel. I also think branding is number one in recruiting new business. And I think it's, I think it's important for, you know, just identify who you are helping your people know who they are.

It helps people be proud of where they work and what they do, and customers be proud of how you integrate with their business. And I think our business is just it's not a transactional industry. It's, you know, we're married. You know, we people put on pants. Yes. if, it's a small percentage of, of somebody spend. But the CEO of a company finds out if there's a hole in your crotch or your pants, right? So, it's kind of a silly thing to think about, but it's so intimate what we do, and, you know, it can get oversimplified and we get lumped in with the trash guy. And this is a this is a different thing. There's such a service component.

And, so I think trying to tell those stories through marketing, to your current customers, to prospective employees, to current employees, that's really where the marketing component comes in. And to me, marketing is very strategic and sales is really just tactical, right? Our sales departments are still Marines, and they go out and they've got orders. And, marketing is like the Pentagon and they've got to figure out where we're going and what beaches, and restaurants.

Eric: So but I'm hearing in both situations that one of the keys to your growth, whether it's an opening, a depot, or a new plant or changing your marketing strategy, it's first knowing who you are, what you're good at, and what you want to, what you want to be. And, using data to back up a lot of those decisions.

Colin: Well, I don't think you can say yes to things until you understand what it is that you want, because at a certain point, saying no to something, just saying yes to who you want to be. And, that was been a very transformative thing for City. And, it's something that I struggle with mightily of saying no to opportunity. But I think it's really important because at some point you just get spread too thin, and you do it to your people, and, they work hard enough industry. There are enough things that can happen, you know, without, making it crazy. And, you know, you just can't be everything to everybody.

Eric:  So one of the things I love about some of your videos is really not this, really not videos about city clean and simple. It's videos about your customer and I really love that because you're really almost creating an advertisement for your potential client or your client. And that's what people pay and that's what people want to see. you know, one of the, one of the social media feeds I follow is, is, is Redbull. You know, they have a very good, very good Instagram feed. And nowhere on that feed do they ever talk about their products. It's always about someone jumping out of an airplane. And yeah, you know, that's just kind of what I'm saying. You know, a little bit of the same spirit in the city marketing.

Colin: Oh, it's such a good call out. Right, Eric? And, you know, everyone knows when you see the guy jump off a building with a Red Bull logo on his back, that Red Bull is about taking life to the extreme and what it does to you. Right. And, you know, our hope is that you know, whatever your work may be, the way we support that and support you to execute on your plan, that's what we are.

And I think there's a subtle undertone that we're trying to convey. I mean, that's obviously the intent. The other thing I'd say, Eric, is that you know, get it getting, people excited to do videos about laundry all day is a hell of a lot harder than, some of our customers that do really cool things. And I still think one of the most fun things about what I get to do and like when I talk to my six-year-old about my week, if I go get to tour a business of a customer or prospect and learn about what they do, is just so cool.

And I think, you know, if you're a genuinely curious person, this industry is, it's just fantastic to get to see how other people do things and take those learnings back to you. And frankly, marketing lets us do that in a in a deep way and hopefully deepen those partnerships with our customers so we can add a little value for that.

Eric: Absolutely. And that's phase one. In my overall attempt to get Red Bull as a sponsor of Laundry Talks. We haven't made it through yet.

Colin: But what? I'm drinking a ghost, so what do you want to take this another direction?

Eric: not exactly, but, And. Yeah, think so. But thinking about things that are really fun, I mean, I think that brings the other thing you're doing on video. It's not kind of looking more at other partners, your customers, but also your suppliers is that I was fortunate enough to come on-site and our team got to to to participate in your other, video project, The Wash, which is,, you know, a knockoff of a Hot Wings, eating show on YouTube. And you're just just great. Just a great opportunity. You want to talk a little bit about that?

Colin: Well, I hope your digestive tract is recovered. Eric. It's, Yeah,  you know, I think our industry, it's funny to me because, back up for a second, I think we have one of the neatest industries that exists. There's a genuine connection. There's sharing with people in different markets and in a different way. The networking is fantastic. That I don't think exists in a lot of industries. And yet we don't have like a consistent form of content, just so we go, I think, you know, like what you're doing with Laundry Talks is so great.

And, and some of these, are more industry-specific things. So now we're trying to search for things that continue to be good for the industry. and selfishly, things that I would want to watch and things that I would be part of. And, you know, I've been in this industry forever. And, you know, we talked a little bit about that, but what got me in love with it and hooked on this industry is the amount of help and support and, camaraderie. I've received from industry, from people all over that have similar problems. And, it's really, really special. And, and hopefully, you know, there's a lot of opportunity through marketing, social media to, to expand on that.

Colin: Yeah. And since you brought that up, I want to talk a little bit. Is there anyone you're outside of your family? yeah. Anyone that you feel like that has been a huge, you know, mentor to you? in that kind of line of thinking as far as being able to lean on someone and get some good advice from kind of a third party. Yeah. you know, frankly, there's a there's a bunch and, there's been different people at different stages in my life. And, you know, I think, you know, when you're, when you're 23 years old and you're trying to figure out, your place in the world and your place within your business, and then talking to people that have been there and done that.

Incredibly helpful when you're going from one plant to two plants, you know, that's a really big part of that journey of understanding, talking to people  who've been there before. And, so there's a bunch of people that would be, you know, it'd be hard to name them all, but specifically the one that frankly, I call the time of bug.

And so, Michael Potack, who's the chairman of the board, a Unitex, since I met him, he's challenged me in a different way to think about things differently. Frankly, I probably wouldn't have, wanted to expand into healthcare, you know, without some of that support and direction. And, you know, it's good to have, mentors and friends and peers that are supportive, but it's better to have them that challenge you in a way that, that somebody can only in a deep way. So, I'm fortunate that I've got a bunch of, but, he's somebody I would call out because, I, I bug him probably a lot more than he'd like, but he keeps answering me, so I'll keep doing it.

Eric: That's awesome. So now, if I'm someone who is in your spot ten years ago or more, and I'm thinking about, you know, taking this step, you know, what advice would you give to that next generation of tech store and all operators that want to expand their business? You know,  what would you tell them? 

Colin: I think the first thing is, it is go talk to a lot of people and go, get involved with things, go see other plants, other laundries. I think that I've never toured a laundry where I didn't learn something, even if it was something I didn't want to do. And, you know, those are those are important parts of going.

And I think, you know, you can get really, really bogged down in the day-to-day and running things that you don't ever stop to talk to people and, and to learn from them. And so I, you know, hopefully, you're problems evolve and you're continuing to find different people, and, even support people. So there's a lot of cool industry cost groups, but there's a lot of industry events.

Yeah. So you see as a lot of events specifically, there's a lot of that happens, there's AlliantCon. And TRSA has got some cool events and there's a ton of opportunity to network and see people. And, almost always people in this industry will answer the phone and say, come on, it, let's talk. And, unless somebody is a direct competitor and even then, oftentimes times people will, you know, review things, share things.

And, I still it's it's one of my favorite things is going to tour other plants, talking to people, and sharing over a meal. So I think when you are getting into this industry, I think you've got to find that, not be afraid of it. Whether you're extroverted or introverted or, or, you know, any of the above and mean, gosh, Eric, when did you start this industry?

Eric: I started, part-time, at Alliant Systems in the fall of 1992 and did not envision I would be there for much longer than six months, but, you know, next thing you know, you're, you're in and,

Colin:  The lint gets in your blood in this industry.

Eric: Well, that's true.

Colin: But mean if you think about all the people that you've known and, I don't know if you would have different advice. I'd be curious. But I think just continuing to expand your network and your reach and have those people who answered the phone you call. I think that's that's how it starts.

Eric: Yeah. I mean, the most exciting thing for me on the sale sign is that, you know, there's a lot of sales opportunities, and a lot of them, you just they don't they don't come through. And you know, the beauty of working in an industry for a long, long time is sometimes you get a second chance, and even a third chance to, you know, to the opportunity come, come around. And being in that being in this industry is very special. And I agree with everything you said about it. So.

Colin:  yeah, for us, you know, one of my in-the-business mentors, this guy Rick Baugh, was a district manager. He said his best customer is he had to lose for three years to become his best customer. And sometimes people need to see it the other way and see what's on the other side. it's, under the vendor side, I'm sure, it's true of, you got to be careful because these businesses stay around for a long time.

Eric: Yeah, absolutely.

Colin: You know, there's probably opportunities that come back around as a way.

Eric: I have a couple final fun questions. But before I do that, do you, anyone that you would personally like to see? Can I use this as leverage to get someone on the show? So anyone that you'd like to see as a guest on an upcoming episode of talks.

Colin: Boy, You know, anybody doing, you know, cool new things I think is, is always good. I think, you know, maybe, maybe the next step in this series, people that, are building plants, it would be really good, I think. I think Greg James would be related to you. Talk to me about that. I think Peter Brown would be, PJ Dempsey. Brian Lector went through that process. He's, he's on a customer of yours, I don't think, but, I guess I guess Greg James isn't either. But anyway, that doesn't matter. But, I think anybody that's, that's doing, some of those, some of those things would be maybe a cool next step.

Eric: Cool. Okay. That's great advice. Thank you. And so the last section here is just to kind of get to know something about Colin that no one knows or talks about music. I was there last summer. We had some great music discussions. We'll talk about that in a second. But, start with the last concert you attended in person.

Colin: The last concert I attended in person was a Primus concert two years ago. so I'm a I'm a child of the late 90s who  was into metal. So, it was a very nostalgic, silly concert.

Eric: That's well played. Now, is this one of your in that genre? Who is your favorite artist then?

Colin:  Oh, I don't know. It's, it's probably hard to say, you know, back that back when I used to, like things that, made your ears bleed and had been a lot, you know, there were a lot. So I went through all those metal stages, and, you know, I'm from Iowa and Slipknot came out, with their first album when I was in eighth grade from Iowa. So that was, that was a big thing growing up. But, you know, the concert I went to before that was the event brothers with my wife. So my, my music tastes, kind of run the gamut. And, you know, I, I play, the cello in orchestra all through, fifth grade through through high school. So, I'm an eclectic, weird music lover here.

Colin: Well, then let's let's learn just a few, a few. Final question. So, Elvis or the Beatles?

Colin: Elvis.

Eric: Okay. Rolling Stones or LED Zeppelin?

Colin: LED Zeppelin.

Eric: And Jimmy Buffett or Dave Matthews.

Colin: Dave Matthews.

Eric: Okay. And then, almost to then Van Halen with or without  David Lee Roth or Sammy Hagar.

Colin: David Lee Roth.

Eric: Okay. And Taylor Swift or Adele.

Colin: I'll go with Adele.

Eric: Oh, so that's that would be terrible in my household.

Colin: I just just this fighting word through.

Eric so, you know, this is our second conversation about Taylor Swift. So not her first. So that's interesting. We talked about the Eras tour last year, over lunch. I think you were surprised by my level of interest in Taylor Swift.

Colin: Well, I, I think it was it was the ability to recite all the verses, from multiple albums that was impressive. So, I don't know, surprised or just blown away? Impressed. I mean, super fan.

Eric: I don't have I'm a super fan and I'm not necessarily reciting Taylor Swift, I am reciting my daughter's reciting Taylor Swift.

Colin: I get it. So I for some, somehow I miss the Taylor Swift thing. My daughter was, pretty nuts about Katy Perry, man. So, I was saying roar at the top of my lungs. So there you go.

Eric: That's the same thing. Well, good. On that note, there's the great thing is there's something in music for everyone, so. Absolutely. Colin, thank you so much. Great guest. Loved hearing your knowledge and input. All right.

Colin: Thanks.