S2 EP1: No BS Sales Conversation with Walker McKay

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

Eric: Hi guys. Eric Smith, host of Laundry Talks. I’m excited to bring you Season 2, starting right now, with my first guest, Walker McKay.

Walker McKay is an author, a sales coach, a podcaster. His podcast is the No BS Sales School, and I’m gonna talk to him about a couple things today. One of them is why sometimes it’s great to get no for an answer from your prospect. Also, what do you say when your prospect asks you about your competition?

So, looking forward to my discussion with Walker, and thanks for joining.

Walker: Eric, thank you so much. And it was fun. What was the event that we were in QA, what was it?

Eric: It was the Independent Textile Rental Association.

Walker: Right, ITRA. Yeah, it was cool. That was fun. I enjoyed meeting a lot people there. It’s a great industry and a great group.

Eric: Yeah. So, what we’re gonna call this today, it’s a No BS Conversation with Walker McKay. And you know that’s pretty much what we want, to give some great actionable information to our listeners here.

I want to share one quick thing that I learned from your book at the top of this meeting. I’ve already used this almost everyday. When you’re in sales, when you’re in service, it doesn’t really matter. You get into a lot of meetings.

One concept you help me with already is that before I go into the meeting, I sit down and tell myself: “What’s the best possible outcome of this meeting?”

Because a lot of times you get into a meeting and you have a great meeting but they’re like:“Well, did we accomplish what we wanted to do?”

But even better than that is, 90% of the meetings you do not accomplish the best possible result. What’s the next possible result?

And so, having those two things in front of me, you know, gives you a lot of options within the meeting. Did we accomplish what we wanted to do? And if we didn’t accomplish it, are we still moving forward to another step?

So, do you want to talk a little bit about that? Because it really blows my mind.

Walker: It’s kind of “no, duh” things that nobody ever told me.I kind of figured out that you go into a meeting, and you typically say: “We’re deciding X.” It’s like typically at the end of the meeting, we’re deciding whether you hire me to do this or whether you introduce me to your boss. And so, you tell them that at the beginning.

Here’s what we typically decide: “Are we okay if we decide yes or no to that at the end of the meeting?”

And if they say:“Well, no. I can’t decide that.” You say: “Okay, well. Here’s what we decide other times. We’re figuring out whether we do this lower step. Are you okay with that?”

Every meeting we go to, there needs to be something we’re trying to figure out or solve to get ayes or no answer. And I want to be as transparent as—I guess transparent is absolutely the right word. No secret agenda, nothing hidden.

“Here’s what I’m trying to accomplish, is that okay?”

And if we get yes or no to that: “Is there anything else you want us to accomplish?”

And let’s learn that upfront.

So, yeah. Thank you, Eric.

Eric: I’ll tell you what my best possible outcome of this podcast is today, and that is that anyone listening to it, that’s in this business or, you don’t have to be running a laundry, they run a business, that they get five actionable things that they can walk away with.

The next possible outcome is that they find anything, a single thing that could help them out.

Two other big things from the book that I really took away was that this idea of getting a no and getting a no quickly is not a bad thing. It’s a good thing. You want to talk a little bit about what that means?

Walker: Yeah, that’s so funny. It’s: “All we can control is what we do.” And I am of the belief that we can’t.

Sales is not about convincing. I don’t think we can sell anybody anything. But I do think that we can have really good conversations with people and figure out if they’re going to be the right fit for what we do.

And so, I tell people: “No is my second favorite word, and I hear it all the time.” I can’t control whether someone tells me yes or no, but I can control if there’s a decision.

And so, I  tell people when we’re going in, when you go into a sales call, I need to have two kinds of—I don’t think they’re competing—but two different thoughts in your brain.

One is: “I’m absolutely certain if you hire me, and it’s the right situation, I’m going to make a huge difference. If you buy our software, if you use me for insurance,if you do my sales training, or you use our laundry service, we’re gonna make a huge difference in a huge way. I’m certain of that if it’s the right fit.”

And number two:“I’m not convinced. I’m skeptical that you’re ready to make that change. I’m skeptical that you are ready.”

And so, it’s my job as a salesperson to disqualify those people that aren’t ready. And I would much rather hear somebody say: “No, I’m not ready.” at the end of the first meeting than at the end of the sixth meeting. And I’ve given them information and begged them for business and whatever else I don’t do anymore. Does that make sense?

Eric: Absolutely. It makes getting to know now feel a little better than it used to.

Walker: Yeah. Because here’s the thing, we can’t control whether they say yes or no, but we can control if there’s a decision being made. If they can’t say yes at the end of the meeting, we can say: “Well, let’s just call it a no. It’s no pressure at all.” “Well, I’m gonna prove you wrong.I’m going to show up and bring you a check tomorrow.” “Okay. But I’m gonna have to call it a no from my side.”

Eric: And then the other thing that I made note on in the book—and I’m not distilling the book into these three things—but they’re just things that resonated with me. You say most people don’t know what good is, and I just really like the way that that sounds. Tell me what that means to you.

Walker: So, it comes from—that’s a great question, I’m glad you picked up on that. It’s “How do most people sell?”

Like, they’ll say,“Well, we’ve got the best people, we’ve got the best service, we’ve got the best qualities.”

And probably a lot of your competitors are sharing their superlatives that all sound exactly alike. And the reason that we’re different is because we say we’re doing the same thing everybody else does.

So as a buyer, we bought this guy. We use him for insurance or whatever. And he said he’s got the best service, best quality, best product. And everybody said the same thing.But I picked him. So, I’m assuming everybody’s about the same.

So, I don’t know any different than that. I don’t even know what good looks like, I just know what I’ve been getting. And so, as a salesperson, nobody can see you’re better till they see that you’re different.

And oftentimes,they can’t see that your product or service is different until after they buy it from you. So, our opportunity to differentiate has to be with how we interact with them during our sales calls, during our prospecting, during all of our interactions. Does it feel different than dealing with other people?

Because I mean,really, how am I supposed to know what a great homeowner’s insurance agent does that a normal one doesn’t do? Because most of us, we pick one and we kind of ride with it for 20 years. That’s what they count on.

So, it’s our job to differentiate ourselves in our conversations and to ask questions like, when your agent sits down with you, once a year, twice a year, to ask you: “What have you bought at your house? You need to make sure you’ve insured. What have you sold to make sure that you’re not paying insurance for that anymore? Last time you met, a couple months ago, what did you all change?”

And then the person goes: “We never do that. He never talks to me.”

Okay, well, I wonder why. So, we’re planting seeds of doubt. You can show people what you do without saying, “We do that.” You could just ask questions. We call that an assumptive question to show what you do differently.

Eric: Let’s pivot and talk a little bit about the laundry industry.Textile rental industry—and maybe that’s not your number one focus—but you know this industry, you have clients in this industry. Do you know a little bit about the challenges and opportunities that exist here? Can you give us some initial thoughts on what’s different about this industry?

Walker: You know, what I’ve found is different. And it’s interesting to me how many generations of families have been in your business and how it’s something that has more than any other business I have been around.

Many of the businesses—especially at the ITRA conference—were the third, fourth, fifth generation in the business. So, there’s the family tied up in that, and the business is treated like family, which is awesome in many ways. And that’s terrific. So, I admire the keeping it in the family industry part of that,which I think is terrific.

So, there’s several varieties. Here’s the people that are selling uniforms, rental uniforms, stuff like that. I mean, a uniform’s a uniform. You can rent one from this company or this company or this company. So, you really have to differentiate—and everybody’s going to say: “We’ve got better service because we’re tiny.” “We’ve got better service because we’re huge.”

But where you can truly differentiate yourself is to ask your prospect: “What do you like about what you’re currently getting? You’re working with Cisco, or you’re working with Cintas. What do you like about the service you’re getting from those guys?”

And it’s not as an attack. You’re sincerely curious. You might even say: “Good for you, you’reworking with Cintas. They’re a great company. What do you like best?”

And they might say: “Well, we liked it there. We know the rep and they’ve got good clean uniforms, and they get us our stuff on to.”

And I want you to just agree with them. “Yep. They’re known for that.” Just agree. Because one of the ways you won’t build trust with somebody is meeting them for the first time and tell them they’re stupid.

And so, if you say: “We work with Cintas.” and the salesperson they go: “They’re terrible!We’re much better than them.” All you’re doing is telling your prospects they’re stupid. So, let’s not get away from that and seek to understand there’s a reason they’re doing what they’re doing.

And so, if they like these things about Cintas, just agree with them, because that’s what they believe, and who the hell are you to tell them they shouldn’t believe that.

Then you say:“Here’s what I know, though. We here at Alliant aren’t perfect. I can’t imagine those guys are perfect. Is there one thing you wish they did better?Differently? What would that be?”

Maybe they say:“Well, you know the route driver seems to change every two months. Or, if we lose, they will bill us. Every time the sun goes down, we get an extra charge,or we’ve got no idea if they’re bringing back 30 uniforms or 60, but we get charged for 60 every time.”

And then you can say: “I’m surprised, tell me more. Can you give me an example?”

Seek to understand your prospects before you sell them. And when I say before you sell them, when you start asking about that stuff, you start asking and they bring you back.

“They charge you for 60, even though sometimes you can only get 45 or 50. How often does that happen? What have you tried to do about it? Does that work? What do you suppose that has cost you? Is that a big deal? What happens if you don’t fix it? What do you think you ought to do?”

And so, I’m fully digging in to understand this person’s position. If they go: “Yeah, not that big of a deal.” I say: “Good. If I were you, I wouldn’t change.” I’m not going to commit there, because some of them, they got to be there for a reason. Or“the CEO plays golf with the CEO of that company.” or “This person brings us our favorite cookies three times a year.”

And if that’s the reason they’re going to stay, that’s the reason they’re going to stay. No need to tell them they’re stupid.

Eric: I was going to talk a little bit about—because we’re in the topic of talking about Cintas and competitors—one of the things that the operators in this industry are doing is, they’re doing new sales teams, and they have route sales teams, and the route sales people are typically hired on a different skill set.

They’re there to be customer centric, to solve problems. But at the same time, the challenge in this industry is they’re expected to do some upselling on the route, and some people are natural at doing that.

And other guys,other people, want to jump under their truck and hide when they’re asked to do those sales. They feel like they’re crossing their customer. So, you know,what’s going on with that, between those two different types of people?

Walker: I think that when someone says they’re a natural born sales person, they themselves are talking about somebody else. In my world, that is often code for: “I talk a lot, probably too much, and I lean on people, some of whom will buy from me.” But they’re comfortable.

I had lunch with a guy like that today. Great guy, very smart. He said: “I’m great at sales.” and launched his pitch about how he tries to convince people to do it. He just loves sales getting in there and doing all this. And I’m like: “Oh that’s the last thing I want.”

But sometimes though, with personality, charisma, and the right opportunities, they can be business development geniuses. They can do great. They’re just in there and people like them automatically, and that can help.

The thing that I believe about sales is we have to have equal business stature with the people that we work with. We need to see ourselves as equals. And I tell my clients,equals with everybody else on the planet, same level.

And sometimes the route salespeople don’t see themselves as being equal with the people that they’re walking into the office. They see themselves more as a servant than they see themselves as an equal. So, they’re afraid to bring that stuff up.

And again, great customer service is a servant mentality. I totally get that. But I think if you can have somebody even just, as easy to say: “Hey, who do y’all get your other stuff from? Who do y’all buy this from? Would you be interested in hearing about what we have?” Nothing too complicated. Or: “Are you okay if I have somebody call on you and tell you about what we do there?” Just ask.

It’s also another quick thing that can be something simple like: “Is there anybody else in another one of your plants that we should know? Is there another plant that you guys own that we should know?”

Because we’re not talking. I mean, it’s nothing magic, but just simply asking questions, have no pressure. I think some people are afraid. Again, they’re afraid of hearing no,they’re afraid of being told no. They’re afraid of having a power thing or somebody pushing back on them.

I would just say:“No is my second favorite word.” And you’re asking to make a sale, really.You’re just saying: “Hey, who do you buy this stuff from now? Any reason we should talk to you about that?”

Another way to do it is a lot of people don’t know that we provide this service. “Is that something you and I should be talking about or is that something I should get somebody to call you about?” Easy peasy.

Eric: That’s a natural way for it to come up, and I think that would probably be good for route sales teams to role play in that type of situation.

Walker: There’s another thing I just thought of that might be helpful, which is, it’s my job to keep up with people like you to make sure you’re getting the help that you need. And that works in any industry.

So, you’re not just checking in, circling back, reaching around or whatever. It’s: “Hey, it’s my job to keep up with people like you and make sure you’re getting the help that you need.”

Eric: Yeah, I like that. And, you know, one thing is people have had success with is sampling programs for route service reps are great because now they’re giving something. They’re giving some value for free to the client, and they can accomplish that and sell at the same time. So, those are always very popular.

And also, I’ve heard someone say that when they’re looking for something, they come in and say: “What are the changes that you might be interested in this?”

What a great way to do that.

Walker: Or even more, there’s a lot more behind this that we probably don’t know about. So, my guess is you guys aren’t interested in something like this. Because the truth is, they’re probably not, just go tell the truth.

They go: “No, no,no, we might be.” You say: “Okay, really? Why? Let’s talk about it.”

Eric: But then you also gotta coach them when they get surprised and then they get surprised and they say: “Yes, we are interested.” And then what’s what comes next?

Walker: Then I say: “Okay, well, wow. Why would you be interested in that?” And then we can start, right? We’re always interested to understand if we’re doing right. But yeah, you’re right. I’ve been doing this for a long time, so.

I’m all about telling the truth and seeking but seeking to understand first. If you’re like:“Oh, I’ll just go and be myself.” which again means, you just probably talk too much. How about go and be empathetic and try and understand the person you’re talking to?

Eric: Yeah, agreed.

Well, one thing,just to wrap up on the route sales stuff before we go into new business sales.My last guest, Nancy, she told me something really interesting, which was for route service people: hiring.

She said the best question to ask them was: “Did you own your own business a child? Did you have a lemonade stand? Did you run a newspaper route?”

Because those were the people that understood the service element of it, but they also kind of treated it like their own business. And that’s the type of person.

What type of person would you be looking for that could service customers and do route sales?

Walker: I think it’s a great thing to look for. Also: “What did you do?” A great question to ask for any salesperson. Route sales, the same.

What did you do to make money in high school or college? And I want somebody that says: “Well, I did newspaper route.” Or I did this, or I did this in the summertime.

Because those that can’t really come up with an answer or, you know, they’re BSing you then they’re probably not the right person to hire. So yeah, I think that’s a great question, what you asked.

Eric: And not everyone will be the perfect fit, and that’s why we have coaching and processes too.

Walker: Correct. And not everybody who’s great at route sales ran a lemonade stand when they were coming along. That’s just one thing that is probably more positive than not.

Eric: For sure.

So, let’s shift to new business sales. This is a big, big topic. So, you do a lot of coaching with sales teams, and some of that’s small to medium sized business.

When you get hired to work with a sales team, where do you start, and how do you change behavior in a team that’s been selling the same way for like, a long, long time?

Walker: Yeah, it’s hard. Gotta be honest. Whenever I first engage with a customer, the first thing we do, I do a sales skills analysis. Basically, it’s an online test. It’s not a personality test.

What are the hard skills that they have learned? Hunting, qualifying questions, listening. I’m able to stay in the moment. All these, say, asking for referrals. What are the skills that they’ve actually learned and developed?

And so, I can look at their entire team, and we’ll talk to the owner, and the owner will say: “Well, we’re not getting new business. And if we are, we’re having a discount price.”

I could look down on the sales skills report, and I can see, well, six out of eight people don’t like talking about money. So, that would be a problem. That’s why they get uncomfortable talking about money over a certain amount.

So, if we can find this stuff out at the beginning, I can come back to the owner of the company or the head of the sales team and say: “All right, here’s where your sales people are and things you need to work on.”

And then, as we coach them and train them individually, here are the things this person is going to need help with, and there are people that, Eric, are very comfortable and they’ve been selling for 40 years and they’re doing fine.

And we can say: “You can put him in training if you want to, but they’re not going to change.”

And you don’t have to exclude them from this, but we can’t expect anybody to change. As soon as somebody, though, is in class and they do this, or “What are you going to teach me?”, and that lasts more than two weeks, then, we’re going to ask them to go spend their time doing the stuff that makes them do well.

You start with change, hoping to show people there’s a buyer’s process that happens in B2B sales, that happens in B2C sales as well. Four steps. See if anybody recognized these.

The first step when we approach somebody or the first step of the buyer’s process when buying is to, some version of ask about price. “Can you save me money? What would it cost?” or “Hey, if it’s cheaper, I’ll talk to you.”

If you make it past the first step, the second step is some version of, they invite you in and you have a conversation and they ask you questions about what you have.

And most people—“Oh my gosh, somebody is interested.” So, we’ll share all our information and we give them information, information information.

The buyer will often say: “Well, can you put that in write? Can you put that in writing to make sure that I understand, and compare?”

So, we do that and we see it as a buying signal. “They’re interested; they love me.” And then, we give them the stuff in writing.

We wait to overcome objections, but oftentimes we don’t get objections because they don’t want to wrestle with a person, with a salesperson. They just don’t want to.

And so, first step: ask about money. Second step is get free consulting.

The third step,instead of giving you objections is they’ll say: “You know what? This looks really great. Appreciate what you’ve done here. Very important. My partner’s traveling in Europe and he won’t be here. I can talk to him when he comes back.I need to sleep on it. We’ve got two other bids coming in. Why don’t you call me back in a week? But it looks really great, love what you’ve done, this is amazing.”

Apples to apples,all things being equal: “Can’t see why we wouldn’t do business with you at some point.”

Ask for money, get free consulting, say nice things and get rid of you is step number three.

So then, you go to call back, they say: “Oh, he’ll be back in a week or two weeks” or whatever.And you’re all excited and you’re like: “Yes, this is good. They like me.”

And you go to callback and, all right, they’ve had time to take your proposal and hand it to the person that’s doing that for them now and say: “Hey, they say they can do this,can you do this?” Or see if they can do it internally. That happens to me all time.

And some people say, “that’s just sales”, but the reality is that’s not sales. Maybe that used to work 50 years ago, where you meet them, greet them, propose them, close them; but now people are smarter.

They’ve got more ways to gate keep. They can get all the information from the interwebs. And so,we have to be smarter than that and at least gain.

We only have 50%of control. We’re the same as everybody else. Like I mentioned before, an equal business stature.

We don’t put up with that stuff. Yesses are fine. Nos are fine. But even say: “Hey, look, why don’t we—happy to come in—we’re never gonna be cheaper. You okay if I ask you some questions and see if it even makes sense for us to have another conversation?”

Eric: A couple of final questions. I want to wrap up with, again, talking to the family owned or the independent operations out there. Every market has these family-owned businesses.

So, if someone’s really trying to really improve their sales process, what are a couple pieces of information to create a simple, repeatable sales process for a small team?What would that look like? Where would you start?

Walker: Well, I think the first thing we got to figure out is who is our ideal prospect. And so, I think we’ve talked before about the story about squirrels, deer, and elephants. Can I tell that story?

Eric: Absolutely, yeah.

Walker: So, first of all, I can figure out who is your ideal prospect. And so, there’s this story that I tell people, and you’ll probably know where it ends before I get there.

A man lives out in the woods. He’s got to feed his family, and he says: “There are a lot of squirrels in the woods.”

And so, it gets up in the morning, walks all day. He shoots 5 or 6 squirrels, comes back; skins them, cleans them, cooks them. Feeds his family one meal.

Day two, same thing. And finally, he goes: “This is exhausting. My family’s not getting full.I’m tired. I got to go further and further to find squirrels. I’m gonna go kill an elephant.” He walks out the door and he’s gone.

A couple of days go by, his son’s kind of hungry and says: “I don’t know when dad’s coming back.There are no elephants nearby. They’re hard to kill and he’s as likely to get killed by one himself. How the hell do we drag it back?”

All those things. He says: “You know, there are a lot of deer in the woods, too.”

And so, he grabs his rifle, climbs a tree, gets lucky the first day, shoots a deer, drags it back; skins it, cleans it. Able to feed the family for two weeks.

Now, Eric, if you’re in your head, you know where this story’s going. Think about your customers and your prospects as squirrels, deer and elephants.

There’s nothing wrong with any of them. Squirrels are the tiny ones. They’re probably calling you. Maybe you can make good margins on them, but it’s no money. And they’re a major service hassle.

Squirrels are very needy; they’re calling all the time. And they need your help, right? And sometimes they’re the ones you’ve had for a long time, and you’ve got this relationship, and they’re with you when you started, and you want to be good to them back.

On the other side of the elephants, they take a long time to close. You’ve got to make a lot of promises to get them. You get excited when you close one. Maybe you add members of your team. You hire people to ramp up to go take care of this, and it’s great.

The money comes in and you’re excited. And then, at some point in the near future, one of them,they will say, “Well, hey, love what you got. This is really great. I appreciate your service. Can you give us this extra thing at no extra charge?”They ask for a little more.

The next thing that they will do is say: “Hey, we’re getting a lot of calls from your competitors. You’re charging us $10, they said they can do it for $7.” “We love our relationship.” “Can you help us out? It gets a lot of pressure from the board. Can you cut our prices? Otherwise, we may have to make a change we don’t want to make.”

Another thing an elephant could do, if not that, if not cut your price directly, it’s: “Hey,look. We’re going from paying you in 30 days. We’re going to start paying you in 90 days. So, just know it’s gonna be a little late next time.” You’re like:“Oh my god.”

So, anyway, at some point it becomes untenable. And either you can’t provide the service you’re providing before because you’re making no money, and so they fire you, and they hire the other guy, whatever. And if they told you the truth, at $7 vs$10, and then the cycle repeats.

So, deer are the ones right in the middle. They’re right in your sweet spot. And there should be—the way you look at this, this is hundreds, if not thousands in your marketplace. Lots of them out there.

And you can have them right in your sweet spot. They’re not a lot of extra work. They can go. They can fit right in with what you’re doing right now. They pay their bills.You make good margin.

And everybody’s business is different. But if it’s somewhere between, say, call it 25 and 100 deer, you have a really nice business because what we know is 15% of your revenue is going to go away every year. So, you’ve got to add 15% to the top.

So, I would tell my clients, focus on who you’re going after, have a real strong idea of who that is. And they’re going to give us, you know, as a council, pay us—I’m making this up—between $5 and $20,000. They do these kinds of services with us. This is what we’re looking for.

They’re probably not the ones that are calling you. The squirrels are the ones that are calling you. You’ve got to go out and get them.

So, identify who that is. Make it very clear to everybody in your company, “this is who we’re looking for.” And create a plan for that.

Take your squirrels—this sounds terrible, so you’ll be mad at me for saying this—double their price, triple their price. Some of them, a number, 25% will stick around and they’ll increase their business with you. The others will go away.

Maybe you can refer them to the competitor you don’t like the most, so that he can choke on all their high service needs. So that’s a thing.

Then, I would start with a behavior plan that sales begins with. There are three things there. Your actions. There’s your attitude and there’s your approach.

So, your actions are kind of your individual personal goals, and then your plan. And then, what are you doing on a daily and weekly basis?

I would get those dialed in so that somebody you would know to be successful, you need to make—I’m making this number up—$50 a week to new business. Or 50 door knocks to new business every week. And that’s what I would measure.

This is what our new plan is, this is what we’re going to do. If you do this, you’ll be successful. And then, have them do that.

If we’re not getting results from that, then we look at attitude, which is, what are their beliefs about the company in the marketplace and themselves.

This is where all excuses are made. “Our prices are too high” or “We don’t give good service” or“I can’t call on those people. They’re not like me.” And to recognize if that’s what’s holding you back.

Then we’ve got to address those things. Those are excuses. And you have to say, alright, how do I say that? What we say out loud is what we tell ourselves the world is on.

So, I tell people,how about change that too?

“I haven’t figure out how to” or “I haven’t figured out how to get that person to call me back”“I haven’t figured out how to get their business” “I haven’t figured out how to be more effective with what I’m doing.”

Say it out loud because I believe your brain goes, yeah, we can figure it out. How do we figure that out vs. they can’t? I won’t. It’ll never be in your brain. That’s the truth.

And the last one is the part everybody wants to know about, which is the approach, your strategies, your systems and your tactics. And those are good, and they can make a huge difference.

I would rather have somebody who was a—we call them a behavior animal—who made the calls everyday. No matter what, they did what they had to do. Who had a crappy, really crappy approach, then somebody who had the best approach in the world but wouldn’t make a freaking dial.

Hire for work ethic, and then train for skills, because if they got the work ethic, that’s terrific. If they don’t have the work ethic, it sure as hell is hard to teach somebody.

And if you say,I’ve been hiring for 100% commission, and then, that’s going to make them hungry, they’re going to do it. I’m not a big believer in that either. I think you get people who can’t get jobs anywhere else.

Eric: Yeah. That’s great advice, I love that. Yeah.

Walker: So, anyway. That’s kind of a general high-level thing,what we’d look at.

Eric: Well, one of the things I wanted to ask, before we wrap up, but I’m glad we did get to the squirrel, deer and elephants conversation, because I think it’s a great—I mean, it just applies to anyone in the sales world, and for any business experience as that, so.

But, before we wrap this up, tell me something outside of this sales discussion. Tell me something interesting about you. Either a place you have been that is your favorite place or a great book or a show you’re binging. Just tell me what’s going on with Walker these days.

Walker: The most exciting thing that I have on my agenda is that Saturday, December the 13th, my family and I are leaving for New Zealand. My wife and my younger son and I are leaving for New Zealand.

My older son moved to New Zealand after graduation and, by himself, knowing no one, has moved to Christ church, which is the largest city on the South Island.

And he is looking for work in the forestry business over there; something has taken his attention. Again, doesn’t know anybody, has got no connections, and he’s knocking on doors with forestry companies to get a job.

So, we’re going to go spend Christmas with him.

Eric: Your first time there.

Walker: First time there. Yeah, it’s been on my list of places to go for a decade.

Eric: Walker, it’s been my pleasure. I feel like I accomplished the best possible outcome of this podcast today but, I’m looking forward to keeping in touch.

Walker: Can I share two things?

Eric: Yeah, absolutely.

Walker: The name of my book is “Some Will. Some Won’t. So What.Who’s next?” It’s on Amazon.

If you want to find out more about me or what we’re doing, LinkedIn is a great place to find me. It’s Walker McKay.

The name of my company is No BS Sales. And then I have a podcast, called the No BS Sales School, which is probably anywhere you listen to podcasts.

Eric: Well, thanks. Wonderful having you on as a guest.

Walker: Thank you, Eric. You’re the best. I appreciate it.